Important question regarding next major Rev version

[Valetia Lowe]

Hi all,

Warning: The following should be viewed as "serious constructive criticism", much like how Mac users criticize Apple management sometimes, when they do something silly to a nice product. So don't take it the wrong way.

I've been programming since HyperCard was first introduced and I do like Revolution, but I think there are some things that need to be addressed urgently and openly by the Rev team.

For those of you who don't understand what the rest of this message is all about, then don't mind me. If you don't know what a "widget" is in the computer world and can't tell a polished native user interface from a hacked up one, then by all means skip to the next message.  

So with that in mind - here goes...

OK - after having used Rev for over a year, it has become apparent that there are a number of major issues that have not been resolved and may not be resolved anytime soon.

Some of these have been promised for years now to be included in an upcoming release, but they keep being postponed. Waiting a year or more for an expected feature to be included can cost some major $$$.

- real list fields with the option for real column headers that can be dragged around and with built-in column sorting like real columns do. You know what I'm talking about. "Normal" development environments allow you to drag these things right into your project, no fuss.

- look at what rev is calling a "table object". It's hacked up too. Doesn't look real at all. Turn on editable cells and you'll see what I mean. The edit boxes look way too huge - why does Rev not use the native ones???? 

- native progress bars on all platforms. I don't know how many people actually notice this (apparently nobody has even brought this up), but the current progress bars suck. They aren't real. On Mac OS X they pretend to be real but the aqua liquid doesn't flow from right to left like it should!! On Windows XP they look like Win95 progress bars!!

- native scroll bars on Windows. Again on XP they look like 95 bars.

- native combo boxes. Same thing.

- native tabs! On Panther they look like Jaguar tabs, and on XP they look like...you know what they look like!!

- and of course the buttons!!! Enter Button Gadget. But should it have been necessary in the first place? Another hack. *sigh* Why not have real ones to begin with? Why can't it be like other apps, which have their widgets automatically updated if you use a newer OS? Why the emulation?

What is worrying is that the brief description about the upcoming version of revolution mentions the use of "Windows Themes"...that sounds like yet another hack. Why can't we just have native widgets - not "themes"??

You know, I may be spending less time coding but I am spending much more time trying to make the interface look as natural as possible on each of the major platforms, doing silly things like:

1. Placing a field with graphics in it behind another field to get a not-so-convincing iTunes lines effect. With other environments you can just easily define the color of each row. And look at the color of the hilite when you select a line...it's not normal!! Try it and you will see the difference.

2. Creating another field that pretends to be the column headers of a list field, and manually writing all the necessary code for resizing, and have it still not look 100% native, and worst of all *this should not have been necessary in the first place*!!! How can list fields not have support for real column headers??? Real ones, that have the correct gradients on the correct platforms, the correct cursor when you mouseover the divider line for resizing, the correct sort direction icon, etc. etc. etc. really all this is already built into each OS, all rev needs to do is to interface with them, but it does not...why???? 

3. No support for native re-ordering of items in a list field! Again, I had to spend an entire day just re-creating something that comes built into every OS!!

4. I could go on and on...but the rev widgets just don't look and act normal, and there are many missing pieces. Can someone from the rev team *really* explain why this is so?

And of course there is the SSL feature, which people have been asking for since at least Jan 2002 and which has been promised but still nothing. It was promised for 2.2 but suddenly, no more 2.2! What happened to it? Of course, it is now promised for 2.5...

I see that most people who use rev don't seem to care about the user interface of built desktop applications. Why?

If anyone else on this list feels the same way, *anyone* at all, please chime in. Why on earth nobody seems flustered about this, I don't know. Is it really so much trouble to get native widgets into rev??

(And yes, I am expecting a clear and concise answer to that question from the rev team.)

Well, that's about it. As someone who's usually optimistic about things, I've been let down too many times with each rev release. Nobody seems to be doing anything about the native widgets...and yes you can take your time (read: years) to implement themes (how long has XP been around now?) but what happens when the next OS arrives? Hacks are never the answer.

At this rate by the time the rev "XP themes" are ready, Longhorn would have come and gone...

I hope someone takes this seriously and looks into it...or could these issues just go by unnoticed - again????

Oh yes - the question. So here's the question:

Will the upcoming release of rev take care of *ALL* of these issues???????? Really??? On all platforms including Windows??

Val